arch/ive/ief (2000 - 2005)

Trash every camera!

A critique of the attitude of Indymedia, other alternative media and individuals during the protests in Brussels (December 2001)

After participating in the protests against the EU-Summit in December 2001 in Brussels, we are still angry about how many photos and videos were made during the different demonstrations. Brussels was not the first time that we have noticed this (obviously its happened before, but not on such a large scale), so we hope that with this critique, we can start a discussion process which we feel is vital.

Actually there is (or was) in Germany (and from what we know, in many other countries as well) consensus to not use cameras and video-cameras on actions, demonstrations, etc. In Brussels, we were really shocked - on the right, on the left, in front of our faces, everywhere were camera's clicking, even during the anarchist demo on Saturday. At some points, people who had been taking pictures almost stopped protestors who were walking, just to take close-up shots of them. We have seen extremely absurd and ridiculous situations, when alternative, corporate (and police) media formed lines together, encircling places where direct actions (breaking windows,spraying,etc.) had been taking place. This still didn´t seem to be disturbing for anybody... WHY?!!

We tried to stop this stupid and dangerous photographing, or at least to push any kind of journalist out of demo, but of course there were too many of them... From so-called alternative media (for example Indymedia Germany) we heard idiotic statements, like "Photo and film materials are helping to legitimise our resistance". Such an attitude comes partially from a naive, deep faith in the "democratic" system ("we only need to REALLY explain our positions and they're going to be accepted" way of thinking) and partially from a self-censoring peacnik mentality ("anyway, we don´t wanna do anything illegal" - as said by those types for which anything more than distributing boring,reformist flyers "is not good for the movement"). Indymedia people with which we attempted to speak simply ignored our position or ensured us that they "know how to deal with material". As we´ve seen after lots of pictures, in which faces are recognisable, have been published on-line and one guy from indymedia arrested with 6 rolls of film - that´s definitely not the case. It´s clear that police will use confiscated materials to criminalise activists. So, there is no reason to take photos or videos in which you can see (and when the cops want, they can recognize anybody from really bad quality pictures, better than her/his friends could) any demonstrators. Or is it that you maybe want to help the cops?

We hope that it is obvious, that pictures for the family/friends album, or taken to brag how cool the action was, is complete bullshit!

Even during seemingly "calm" situations, it´s possible that the mere presence of particular individuals (especially when she/he is already under repression due to her/his/ "illegal"/"foreigner" status, previous political activities or both), in a particular place (for example at a demo), around particular people could be, even after many years, used as evidence against her/him (or even their friends).

We´ve often been confronted with the argument that media presence serves as a kind of protection from police violence. But then again - documentation of ANY confrontations with the police forces is always a two-edged sword. When dealing with that material, one must be extremely cautious and think it through. And this kind of material should be offerered to persons concerned.

We heard an opinion, that photos are helping to mobilise people for the next action. We think it´s more of a growing tendency to consume "radicalism" on a computer screen. Is more actually being reported than done these days? And on Indymedia, photos (and stupid comments) are prevailing over good analysis and concepts for further struggle. Even if pictures are bringing more people to demonstrations, it´s still not an excuse to put people in danger. Publishing pictures also has the sad effect of giving on-scene newcomers the impression that filming on demos and actions is "something normal".

We´ve noticed ,that recently masses of people are prefering to become "media activists" rather than "activists". For any political protest, it seems really easy to get press-ID from Indymedia - It is irresponsible! We are not for some closed, elite spectrum of "radical journalists", but we do start questioning the whole Indymedia-crew (and its helpers), because we haven`t noticed any deeper discussion about the ideas of left radical media, its values and responsiblities.

Cops know that Indymedia people are much more accepted on demos than the mainstream press, so they´re becoming easier and more valuable targets too. The police attack on the Indymedia Centre in Genua didn´t happened by accident... There, and in Gothenborg, they´re still "working on materials", more and more repression is probably still to come and maybe it's just luck that many, many more have not been arrested …yet.

In general, there seems to be a tendency to mistake most media activism (which, when it is reduced to merely reporting only "radical" actions - which is in fact just a technical issue) for political activism (which actualises political processes). It´s sad, but in current times, when so many people, in the left radical movement as well, don´t seem to have many political perspectives, many are grasping media activism just because they want to "do something". This process is a bit like capitulation, but it also shows a lack of concrete discussions on organising as well.

In the past, there weren´t so many pictures taken of actions and the repressive apparatus worked differently then as well. Surveillance is reaching deeper and deeper into our lives and we just hope that it's still not too late for far-going discussion in the movement on how to fight it.

Basically, alternative radical media is necessary, but the responsibility that it bears is enormous. How many times have we already seen how some events get reported completely wrong, full of "positive" lies. What are the reasons for that?

Indymedia must confront itself with the fact that it is creating a situation where it seems that anybody can film/take photos without thinking about it's (eventual) function, sense and danger. Till now, we haven't found any signs of internal or external discussion about these problems, it is time to ACKNOWLEDGE YOUR RESPONSIBILTY!!!

Anyway, there is a lot of ways to make good radical creative and responsible political media without endangering any political activists (or only those that are consciously taking it into account)... - the pirate radio in Brussels has been one of the best recent examples.

All cameras will be trashed!

This is the final warning!

It is now 5 to 12°°!

Let's discuss about it.
"All cameras will be trashed!" is no way to speak to other activists.
Some point.

[1] You talk about a "consensus to not use cameras and video-cameras on actions" in Germany. There's not such consensus in Belgium, there's no problem between demonstrators or activists and media activists. Respect the situation in one place when you come, don't take for granted the habits of another place.

[2] Pix can be used against people who do actions, that's true, but:
- police have brilliant ressources to shoot far better pix than us.
- activists that make illegal action are acting with mask and clothes that fit to it.
- if any activists ASK someone from indymedia NOT to take pix or film, s)he'll do it.

[3] Not everybody have the same opinion as you, plenty of people come to our websites just to see pix of the ""violent"" actions, 'oh, look, i'm there!'

[4] The only real question is about content. Do we need all thoses pix of brokken windows. No, we need content. And in that kind of demos it's really difficult top have anyone talking about political issues...that's a pity, because their actions won't never be understood but by themselves.

[5] Maybe there's too much people making photos and videos in the demos. What's sure is that there's lot of people doing pix that we'll never see anywhere, and that's a real pity.

[6] Alternative and independent media is a real need for the movement. Act in a positive way towards it. "Trash all camera"? You really don't know who's the real enemy, or what?

Cheers
.

Les appareil-photos à la poubelle!
par le ggsoliaktion 3:45pm Fri janv. 25 '02
ggsoli@squat.net

Une critique de l'attitude d'Indymedia, d'autres medias alternatifs et d'individus pendant les manifestations à Bruxelles (décembre 2001)

Après avoir participé aux manifestatins contre l'Eu-Sommet en décembre 2001 à Bruxelles, nous sommes encore fâchés au sujet du nombre de photos et de vidéos prises pendant les différentes manifestations. À Bruxelles ce n'était pas la première fois que nous avons noté celà (évidemment cela s'était produit avant, mais pas sur une si grande échelle), ainsi nous espèrons que par cette critique, nous pourrons commencer un processus de discussion que nous nous sentons est essentiel.

En fait il y a (ou avait) un consensus en l'Allemagne (et d'après ce que nous savons, dans beaucoup d'autres pays aussi bien) pour ne pas utiliser des appareils-photo et des vidéo-appareils-photo sur des actions, des manifestations, etc... À Bruxelles, nous avons été vraiment choqués - côté droit, côté gauche, de face nos visages, étaient partout photographiés, même pendant la manif anarchiste samedi. À tel point que les gens qui prenait des photos, ont presque arrêtés les manifestants qui marchaient, pour prendre juste des projectiles de plan rapproché d'eux. Nous avons vu des situations ridicules et extrêmement absurdes, quand les médias alternatifs et ceux de la police ont formés un seul et même groupe, encerclant des endroits où des actions directes (cassant des fenêtres, pulvérisant, etc...) avaient eu lieu. Cela n'a pas toujours semblé déranger quiconque... POURQUOI?!!

Nous avons essayé d'arrêter cette photographie stupide et dangereuse, ou de pousser au moins n'importe quel genre de journaliste hors de la manif, mais naturellement il y en avait un trop grand nombre... De prétendus médias alternatifs (par exemple Indymedia Allemagne) nous avons entendu des rapports idiots, comme '"les photos et les matériaux de film aident à legitimer notre résistance". Une telle attitude vient partiellement d'une foi naïve et profonde dans le système "démocratique" ("nous devons seulement expliquer VRAIMENT nos positions et elles vont être comprises") et partiellement d'une mentalité de censure de peacnik (?) ("de toute façon, nous ne voulons faire rien illégal" - comme indiqué par l'un de ces types qui considère que ne rien faire d'autre que de distribuer d'ennuyeux flyers réformistes "n'est pas bon pour le mouvement"). Les personnes d'Indymédia avec lesquelles nous avons essayé de parler ont simplement ignoré notre position ou nous ont assuré qu'elles "savent traiter le matériel". Nous avons vu après que ce n'était pas le cas puisqu'un bon nombre d'images, dans lesquelles les visages sont reconnaissables, ont été édités en ligne et qu'un type d'Indymedia a été arrêté avec 6 rouleaux de film. Il est clair que la police utilisera les matériaux confisqués pour criminaliser les manfestants. Ainsi, il n'y a aucune raison de prendre les photos ou les vidéos dans lesquels vous pouvez voir (et quand les flics le veulent, ils peuvent identifier n'importe qui à partir d'images de vraiment mauvaises de qualité, de bien meilleure façon que vos amis les plus proches pourraient le faire) toutes les manifestations. Ou peut-être voulez-vous aider les flics?

Nous espérons qu'il est évident pour vous, que prendre des photos pour les mettre dans l'album de famille ou se vanter de ce que la manif était cool, est une connerie complète!

Même pendant des situations apparemment "calmes", il est possible que la seule présence d'individus particuliers (particulièrement quand elle/il est déjà en danger du fait de son statut "d'étranger illégal", en raison de ses activités politiques précédentes ou des deux), dans un endroit particulier (par exemple à une manifestation), parmi certaines personnes pourrait même après beaucoup d'années, être utilisée comme preuve contre elle/lui (ou même leurs amis).

Nous avons été souvent confrontés avec l'argument que la présence de médias sert de protection contre la violence de police. Mais d'un autre côté - la prise de photos de TOUTES LES confrontations avec les forces de police, est toujours une épée à deux tranchants. En traitant ce matériel, on doit être extrêmement prudent . Et ce genre de matériel devrait être remis aux personnes concernées.

Nous avons entendu une opinion, ces photos aident à mobiliser des personnes pour la prochaine action. Nous pensons que cela correspond à une tendance croissante de consommer le "radicalisme" sur un écran d'ordinateur. Peut-on être filmé plus réellement que de nos jours? Et sur Indymedia, les photos (et les commentaires stupides) règnent plus que les bonnes analyse et concepts pour davantage de lutte. Même si les images apportent plus de personnes aux manifestations, ce n'est toujours pas une excuse pour mettre des personnes en danger. L'édition des images a également l'effet triste de donner à des nouveaux venus, l'impression que le pelliculage sur des manifs et des actions est "quelque chose de normal".

Nous avons noté, que récemment les gens préfèrent devenir des "activistes de médias" plutôt que des "activistes". Pour n'importe quelle manifestation politique, il semble vraiment facile d'obtenir une carte de membre d'Indymedia - C'est irresponsable! Nous ne sommes pas pour une élite fermée de "journalistes radicaux", mais nous commençons à nous interroger sur Indymedia-en son entier (et ses aides), parce que nous n'avons rien noté de profond quant aux discussions au sujet des idées des médias radicaux de gauches, de ses valeurs et des responsabilités.

Les flics savent que les gens d'Indymédia sont davantage reçus sur des manifs que la presse traditionnelle, ainsi ils deviennent des cibles plus faciles et plus valables aussi. L'attaque de police sur le centre d'Indymedia à Gênes ne fut pas un accident... Là, et à Göteborg, la police "travaille toujours sur vidéos et photos", de plus en plus de répression est probablement toujours à venir et c'est une chance juste que beaucoup, beaucoup plus de personnes n'aient pas été arrêtées... encore.

En général, il semble qu'il y ait une tendance à confondre la plupart des médias activistes (qui, quand leur activité est réduite à enregistrer simplement seulement des actions "radicales" - est en fait juste une issue technique) avec l'activisme politique (qui actualise des processus politiques). Il est regrettable, mais dans des périodes actuelles, quand tant de personnes, dans le mouvement radical gauche aussi bien, ne semblent pas avoir beaucoup de perspectives politiques, beaucoup se saisissent de l'activisme de médias juste parce qu'elles veulent "faire quelque chose". Ce processus est vécu comme une capitulation, mais il montre également un manque de discussions concrètes sur l'organisation.

Dans le passé, il n'y avait pas eu autant de photos prises des actions et de l'appareil répressif a fonctionné différemment puis aussi bien. La surveillance atteint de façon plus en plus proche nos vies et nous espérons juste qu'il n'est toujours pas trop tard pour une discussion sur le fond dans le mouvement sur la façon de la combattre.

Fondamentalement, les médias radicaux alternatifs sont nécessaires, mais la responsabilité qu'ils portent est énorme. Combien de fois nous ont remarqué comment quelques événements étaient rapportés de manière complètement fausse, pleine de mensonges "positifs". Quelles sont les raisons de cela?

Indymédia doit se confronter avec le fait qu'il crée une situation où il semble que quiconque peut prendre des photos ou des films sans penser au sens, à la fonction, au danger de tout cela. Jusqu'à maintenant, nous n'avons trouvé aucun signe de discussion externe ou interne au sujet de ces problèmes, il est temps DE RECONNAÎTRE VOTRE RESPONSABILITÉ!!!

Quoi qu'il en soit, il y a beaucoup de façon de faire de bons médias radicaux politiques créateurs et responsables, sans mettre en danger aucun des activistes politiques (ou seulement ceux qui tiennent compte consciemment du danger)... - la radio pirate à Bruxelles a été un des meilleurs exemples récents.

Tous les appareils-photo seront foutus à la poubelle!

Dernier avertissement!

Il est maintenant 5 à 12°°!

I am in no way part of illegal stuff. I usually like to have a spliff before a demo, but that's it. It is a personal decision. But I too am really fucked off with bloody wannabes waving their bloody digital cameras around. Most of the results that I ever see are just happy snaps and wobblyscope video. I think you should really ask people before photographing them and NO ONE EVER EVER ASKED ME. And I agree its getting worse by the minute. However I have no problem with audio (maybe because you HAVE to ask someone before interviewing them?) so look forward to be able to listen to the sound of breaking cameras soon over the net.

Let's be serious for a while.

* People taking pictures cannot ask everybody in the crowd if they agree or not to be on the picture. You can ask politely people with a camera not to take a pic of you. Indymedia.be activists are in the demo, like other activists, not taking pictures from the roofs, you can see them and discuss with them.

* The meaning of a demonstration is to be seen, as far as i know. So it seems logical that media-activists try to have pix of it.

* We can debate about how to do it the most responsible way to do alternative coverage, there're lot of things that have to go better, but i'm getting tired of reading more critcisms about alternative media than about police or mainstream media. And even worst: most of those texts are really agressive. Hallo! We've the same goals!

Le moindre tag sur le sol mobilise 3 photographes, une petite affichette et c'est une caméra DV qui si colle (et je ne parle pas des actions plus musclées…).
Oui il y a beaucoup trop de caméras qui si elles tombent dans les mains des flics donneront plein d'infos. Nous devons limiter les vidéos et les photos qui risquent de se retourner contre nous (les flics ont déjà suffisamment de matos).
A Indymedia France ont essai de limiter ce genre de problème, mais beaucoup de photos sont postées par des internautes (peu par l'équipe même d'Indy France). Et peu ou pas de matériel photo ou vidéo reste au domicile des membres de l'équipe, en cas de "perquisition", il n'y aura rien d'intéressant pour les flics.

-> I myself sometimes take pictures. But i always care to take only photos of people I know they don't care, or of the crowd [where no one in specific can be identified]

-> It is true however that "protest" becomes more and more a thing to consume. That's sad. Some people seem to find it "hip" and "cool" to call themself "media activist" an run around with their expensive digital cameras.

-> However i know that there are a lot of really intelligent comrades with Indymedia, who act in a way that does not put other people into danger.

-> I believe Indymedia is necessary for the movement. Independent Information IS indeed "independent", it might happen you'll find things you don't fully agree with. But if we can't deal with a democratic independent way of information, how can we pretend to fight for such a kind of society ??

-> Recognizing all the positive points of indymedia, i agree that there should nevertheless be a discussion about methods. F.ex. ON Indymedia germany, if you post pictures, most people will expect that you have digitaly altered it in a way no one can be identified. I find this a good solution...

* To hide faces to make people not recognizable? I don't really like that idea. They do so in Germany both for pix and movies, even for calm demo. It seems that the atmosphere and the culture of activists is different there.

* To me hiding faces makes people looking like criminals. Why should we hide? It's like saying we don't dare to face our enemies. On specific action me may mask ourselves, to protect ourselves. For exemple illegal refugees used to wear white plastic masks. It became a symbole and didn't look as agressive as black fabric masks.

* It may also breed a "paranoia" atmosphere. We have to considere what to fear the most. I don't think media activists work is helping anyhow the police. We should be more suspicious about our phones, mobile phones, e-mails, gathering places, agendas, etc. It's much more important for police and intelligence services to know the structures, plans and habits of the organizations and activists groups.

* But i can understand the fear of some people, and we have to build up dialog about it. But "no camera" is not a way to deal with that issue. Every action / gourp may have it's own policy about it, that we could discuss before the actions, etc...
.

-> You say, covering faces makes you look like criminals.
I agree. But i don't think that this always is "bad" (it can be, of course) . But wouldn't you agree that in "our" society, questioning the State and its fundaments includes questioning the laws, which equals to "beeing a criminal".....

->in germany , the habit to alter pictures has a very good reason: the fascist organisations there, in some regions, do a thing they call "anti-antifa" : collecting and spreading information about antifascist .. there have even been "death lists" spread in right-wing-internet communities with the names an pictures of the "red scum"...

of course, this situation is (luckily) still an exception, and in belgium maybe the confrontations between the different antagonistic forces aren't yet led in a way that would require general "face-hiding". But we still do have do discuss in which manner the media-hype could put in danger our comrades.

f.ex. in germany, it happend that mainstream media "sold" their archived close-up picture material to the police....we shouldn't be too naive in our relations with media and camera of any kind

-> but i fully agree this discussion cannot be done by threatening to "smash all cameras" .....

SI QUIERES HACER ALGO EN SERIO, DE VERDAD, DEBES PARAR DE JUGAR A LA REVOLUCION Y PREPARALA YA! NO PENSAR EN TIRAR LAS CAMARAS A LA BASURA, O LO QUE ES MAS GRAVE, DESTRUIR ALGUNAS, YA QUE TRABAJO NOS HA COSTADO ADQUIRIRLAS, PARA HACER EL TRABAJO POLITICO QUE AVECES DESPRECIAN ALGUNOS PSEUDOREVOLUCIONARIOS . NOSOTROS TRABAJAMOS EN LA CLANDESTINIDAD Y TENIAMOS REPORTEROS DE GUERRA YA QUE HABIA QUE DAR A CONOCER LAS ACTIVIDADES QUE SE REALIZABAN. SI VAS A UNA ACTIVIDAD DE CONFRONTACION PREPARA LA AUTODEFENSA CON LA GENTE DEL LUGAR Y NO INVADAS MANIFESTACIONES NI JUEGUES CON EL FUTURO DE LA GENTE, CUBRETE EL ROSTRO, BASTANTE TENEMOS CON TENER QUE RESGUARDAR NUESTRA SEGURIDAD Y MATERIAL QUE TANTO NOS HA COSTADO COMO PARA QUE TENER ADEMAS QUE CUIDAR LA SEGURIDAD DE ALGUNOS QUE SE LAS DAN DE SUPER REVOLUCIONARIOS Y NO SON CAPACES DE PONERSE BIEN UN PASAMONTAÑAS O UN CUBRE ROSTRO Y QUE ADEMAS AVECES AMENAZAN A LAS PERSONAS QUE NOS ENCONTRAMOS ALLI CUBRIENDO LA ACTIVIDAD PARA LUEGO DARLA A CONOCER. QUEMAR NEUMATICOS, ROMPER BANCOS Y COCHES, ENFRENTARSE CON LA POLICIA EN UNA MANIF. NO ES UNA BUENA MANIFESTACION NI EL COMIENZO DE LA REVOLUCION... HAY QUE ORGANIZAR RESISTENCIA, VIVIR RESISTENCIA, COMER RESISTENCIA PARA GOLPEAR ORGANIZADO. HAY QUE COMENZAR TAMBIEN A SABER QUE PIENSA, COMO DUERME Y HASTA QUE COME EL ENEMIGO Y NO LLEGAR A UNA MANIF. Y ENCONTRARSE LUEGO INFILTRADO POR TODOS LADOS CUAL BARCO DE PAPEL EN UN OCEANO.

A ORGANIZAR RESISTENCIA...

would you mind writing your diskussion posts in a language that ordinary people like me understands too ...f.ex. french, english.....??

QUE PENA QUE NO ENTIENDAS LA LENGUA DE UN CONTINENTE QUE TIENE MUCHAS COSAS QUE ENSEÑAR Y QUE HA SERVIDO DE LABORATORIO PARA EXPERIENCIAS DE IZQUIERDA Y DERECHA.
SOLO PUEDO RECOMENDARTE QUE APRENDAS CASTELLANO("ESPAÑOL")Y QUE AGREGUES UN POQUITO DE HUMILDAD A LO QUE APRENDERAS.
LO UNICO QUE SE DECIRLES A LOS APRENDICES DE "FACHAS" QUE SI ME TOCAN A MI O A MI MATERIAL QUE SE ATENGAN A LAS CONCECUENCIAS.
MC
NOTA: A TOMARSE EN SERIO LA LUCHA, APRENDAN A CUBRIRSE LA CARA SI QUIEREN LUCIRSE EN UNA MANIFESTACION, BASTA DE JUGAR A LA REVOLUCION O A QUERER JUNTAR "AVENTURAS" PARA CONTAR A SUS HIJOS. AH!, Y SI QUIEREN ROMPER CAMARAS, COMIENCEN POR LAS DE LA POLICIA QUE ESAS LAS COMPRAN CON LOS IMPUESTOS QUE PAGAN SUS PAPIS Y USTEDES CON TANTA COCACOLA QUE TOMAN Y TANTO LEVI'S.

Tout d'abord merci pour la traduction à Tatahari sans qui je n'aurais pas lu cette article (l'anglais m' exaspère), mais il est essentiel que des médias couvrent de tels événements (rappelons nous de Carlo Giulliani) même si cela comporte certains dangers; la seule solution est que chacun s'impose une censure dans certaines conditions (bien que ca ne soit pas très objectif).
Moi-même je viens de m'acheter un handycam, parce que je pense que c'est un gage contre les abus de la police et qu'il permet non seulement d'informer mais aussi de conscientiser les gens sur le réel état de la pseudo "démocratie" dans laquelle nous vivons. C'est un combat contre la désinformation ne l'oublier pas !

In the IMC "Principles of Unity" which imc's have to sign up to to be part of imc network it says:

[3. All IMC's respect the right of activists who choose not to be photographed or filmed.]

At every international large demo imc I've ever been to people always take pains to say don't take pictures of this or that and legal briefings are always given about powers of cops to seize film / footage etc.

That said things are often very different on the streets - the best laid plans... etc etc

You said you tried to stop dangerous picture taking (great) but i would be intersted to know if those people you spoke to stopped taking pictures or just carried on regardless (you don't say, you just note their replies).

RE:
"We have seen extremely absurd and ridiculous situations, when alternative, corporate (and police) media formed lines together, encircling places where direct actions (breaking windows,spraying,etc.) had been taking place. This still didn´t seem to be disturbing for anybody"

Couple of points - first off i would hope alt media people were only taking pictures that did not include people (ie windows, grafiti). That said it is not weird for alt media people to stand next to cops at all, sometimes it's the best place, sometimes you want to be in the right place to photograph the cops if they go smashing people's skulls. There were other situations when lots of people with cameras along with other protestors encircled groups of undercover cops and forced them out of the area (by the way many instances of provovateurs have been revealed through such footage over the last couple of years).

The number of people filming and taking pictures in Brussels was perhaps more obvious because there weren't that many people there after the large union march, as opposed to other events.

However, and this is an important point in relation to what you're saying, when u look at the number of people who posted pictures on the imc site this was minimal. The majority of people taking pictures were not taking them to post on indymedia - so they're either the personal keepsake types (of the media art student variety or just activists with cameras, of which there are many indeed), corporate media scum (of whom there were a lot), freelancers (who sell to corporate media scum), cops or tourists.

A similar thing goes with video cameras too.

I do agree however indymedia ID cards are a dangerous joke since they appear to say i'm a friendly person, but they mean nothing. They should not be trusted fully.

RE:
"Cops know that Indymedia people are much more accepted on demos than the mainstream press, so they´re becoming easier and more valuable targets too. The police attack on the Indymedia Centre in Genua didn´t happened by accident..."

No you're correct it was no accident, however the purpose of the raid was not the seizure of materials. Yes they took a few cameras, a few discs and a few tapes, but they left a much larger amount behind - this was not the purpose of the raid be clear about that, and understand why they really wanted to hit indymedia - because it's being successful at getting info out etc. (note: precautions over film materials ARE routinely taken).

RE:
"we haven`t noticed any deeper discussion about the ideas of left radical media, its values and responsiblities"

This is discussed on the many mailing lists of indymedia, rather than onsite. But I agree more public discussion would be good, and a more structured presentation of good practice 'how to' guides for those new to the ideas of media activism could be put on indymedia sites more prominantly.

I think that the general point you make about indymedia encouraging a camera culture may be true, but it's also a lot to do with more people simply having access to the kit. There's also some cultural differences too which need to be taken into account. In the UK we have one of the most comprehensive surveillance societies in the world (lots of cop cameras and cctv) and a dirty right wing press coupled with a situation where violence and property destruction on larger demonstrations are for the most part much less than those seen in a lot of europe. In other places the situations are very different - some imc people black out every face in a crowd from their pictures.

Re "All cameras will be trashed! This is the final warning!" this just makes me seriously angry after a good setting out of some important issues and makes me want to rant about black block people taking pictures of themselves outside damaged property and other taking pics of which I have seen many, so please include these people too. Also out of the many times I've seen people in trouble for having cameras, most were doing things that were well out of order - most had their film destroyed and not the camera, others did have the camera destroyed, others were physically beaten, other just had their cameras stolen. In the situations when people have approached me while taking pictures a quick chat has sufficed to re-assure (digi cameras at least allow you to show what you've just taken pictures of), that said several friends have been beaten by cops and protestors alike just for being in possession of a camera, which is bullshit.